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Tonight on History's Greatest Mysteries.

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The Roswell investigation goes into uncharted territory.

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Previously, a cryptic journal may hold vital clues to what

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crashed near Roswell in 1947.

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It belonged to an Army intelligence officer who inspected

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the wreckage and was sure it was extraterrestrial.

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It was not anything from this earth.

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But the Army said it was a routine weather balloon.

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Decades later, that officer, Jesse Marcell,

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said he was forced to lie.

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All I could do is keep a mouth shut.

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His family hopes a former CIA investigator will find the truth,

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which might be hiding inside the mysterious journal.

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What I'm seeing throughout the document is consistent with that time period.

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The time period is a long time.

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What I'm seeing throughout the document is consistent with that time period.

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It has been authenticated by a forensic document expert,

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but what does the strange writing mean?

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I'm Lawrence Fishburne.

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As our mystery continues, a famed cryptologist examines the journal

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for signs of a code.

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Is there a message the writer wanted the world to hear?

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And can new technology read the words of a memo from a photograph

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taken after the Roswell crash?

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If this document says victims of the wreck,

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it negates the skeptical arguments about the Roswell case.

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And tracking down the family of alleged eyewitnesses,

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who say they already know the truth.

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There were little people walking around,

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and there were some dead and some alive.

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What really happened at Roswell, New Mexico?

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An event that has obsessed the world.

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MUSIC

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It's difficult to determine whether or not those are three numerical sevens,

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or whether they are meant to form the capital letter M.

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What's the date of that page?

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August 31st, 1947.

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That's interesting.

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Your grandfather would have been in Roswell at that point.

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I would have been in Roswell, yes.

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Former CIA investigator Ben Smith has returned to the office of Jennifer Nassau,

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one of America's top handwriting experts.

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Joining Smith is Jesse Marcel's grandson,

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who believes his grandfather was torn between his duty as an intelligence officer

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to keep secrets and a hunger to tell people what he really saw.

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I think my grandfather really wanted to tell everything he knew about it.

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I can't believe for a second that he was going to let the story die with him.

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For more than a month, Nassau has been analyzing the puzzling journal

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that Marcel kept among his most valuable papers.

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She has determined that the journal was written during the time period of the Roswell incident.

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It's just great mystery.

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Why did Jesse keep this journal?

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What could it tell us about Roswell,

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which he said was the defining event of his life?

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So what then have you learned about the handwriting?

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So I did a handwriting comparison with the journal

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and the known specimens I had for Jesse Marcel.

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So here is the lowercase p-formation.

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Okay.

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Where it starts going up, comes down, forms a loop,

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and ends to create the bowl of the p.

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Okay.

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Here is the known specimen writing I had of Jesse Marcel.

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And here's a p in Japanese.

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Yeah.

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And it does not have that high approach coming around to loop and finishing with the p.

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Whereas that is seen throughout this document.

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So it's a constructural, significant difference that I'm saying.

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So this journal was not written in Major Marcel's handwriting?

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Not based on the known writing I had for comparison.

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It is astonishing news.

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Jesse Marcel is not the author of the journal.

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There's no proof indicating it's a hoax or a forgery

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or that it's anything but an important document to your grandfather.

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Right.

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In Roswell at the time.

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At the time.

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Yeah.

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Because it actually raises more questions and answers than that.

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This is intriguing.

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The paper and ink are from the right period,

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but Jesse is not the author of the journal.

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So why did he keep an underlocking key for so many years?

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Unlocking the secrets of the journal will take more investigating.

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It's not my grandfather's handwriting.

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Who's this?

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Who wrote it?

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And what does it mean?

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Is it a code that can be deciphered?

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To find out more, Ben Smith heads to the photo archive of a major university.

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He's hoping to find supporting evidence to verify Marcel's story

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that whatever crashed at Roswell was extraterrestrial.

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I'm at the University of Texas Arlington

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where they keep the original negative of the infamous Ramey photo.

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That photo of the press conference staged by General Roger Ramey

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has long intrigued investigators.

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His colleague General Thomas Dubose is holding up a piece of a weather balloon,

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which Ramey tells reporters is what really crashed in Roswell,

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but look more closely.

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In his hand, Ramey is holding a memo too blurry to read

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that some believe could confirm Jesse Marcel's story of a flying saucer.

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Here to meet Kevin Randall to learn about the history of all the analyses conducted on this photo

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and also to figure out what more can we do to decipher the message on that memo.

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Kevin.

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Ben.

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It's so nice to meet you.

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Good to meet you too.

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Grab a chair.

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Sure.

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Kevin Randall has written more than 80 books

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and is a former intelligence officer and lieutenant colonel in the Iowa National Guard.

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Among UFologists, he's considered one of the preeminent experts on the Roswell crash.

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The Ramey memo is an interesting part of the Roswell incident

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because it's a photo of potential debris with Jesse Marcel.

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It's important because we have a provenance for it.

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We can say this picture was taken on July 8, 1947 in General Ramey's office.

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We've got the time.

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We know who the photographer was.

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We know who all the participants were.

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On July 7, 1947, Jesse Marcel returned to Roswell Army Airfield

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with what he thought was debris from a flying saucer that crashed on a remote ranch 75 miles to the west.

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After viewing the strange material, the base commander for the 509th Colonel William Blanchard

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decided to issue a press release.

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The press release chose up newspapers all over the country, obviously.

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Fort Worth Star Telegram gets it.

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They say head out to the base and see what's going on.

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They've got a flying saucer.

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News of a flying saucer set off alarm bells at 8th Division headquarters.

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So the next day, General Roger Ramey held that famous press conference to set the record straight.

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General Ramey is the one who told the newsman it was nothing more than a weather observation balloon.

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Of course, we both knew differently.

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The only reporter in the room is J. Bond Johnson, and he's communicating with the general,

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and he poses Marcel with it but apparently doesn't ask him any questions.

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Or if he does ask him questions, Ramey would answer them.

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He told me not to say anything.

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He says I'll have it from now on.

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And that's exactly what he did.

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It was definitely not a weather balloon.

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What it could have been, I wouldn't know.

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Jesse Marcel's grandchildren believe he was completely blindsided by General Ramey's press conference.

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I see my grandfather holding up something that he knew that wasn't what he found.

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He was adamant that this was not what he saw in the Drieffield.

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The controversy over what crashed near Roswell has made this photo the subject of intense scrutiny.

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You know what we ought to do is take a look at the thing, give you an idea of exactly what we're talking about so that you can see what's been done.

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Yeah, let's do that.

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People have been looking at this document for literally decades trying to determine what this memo says.

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The problem with the Ramey memo is it's taken at a slight angle, it's crotch to his hand so it's got some folds in it.

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So we're trying to interpret the negative in such a way that we don't read into it what we want to read into it.

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Right here by the thumb is the words Fort Worth, Texas.

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Very, very critical given the time of the photograph.

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You move down here toward the end of the memo, toward the very end and to the right side you can see it says weather balloons.

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Oh yeah, look at that. You really can't weather other balloons.

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So that gives us an idea of what the document is about. It's not the laundry list, it's not a grocery list.

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It has to do with what's going on there in Roswell.

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The other thing that is important is right down here we have one word.

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Now if we can determine what that word is, that might tell us something.

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If it's Ramey, then this is a document that was prepared by General Ramey and that provides us with a little bit of information about it.

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Some people have interpreted it as Temple.

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Oddly, Temple was the code name of G. Edgar Hoover.

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It would not be surprising if the memo referred to J. Edgar Hoover, the legendary 37 year director of the FBI.

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No clue, no matter how seemingly unimportant can be overlooked.

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He'd been pushing for the FBI to have access to the Army's investigation of Roswell, but had been turned down.

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In a note dated July 15, 1947, just days after the crash, Hoover contemplated the idea of creating a special FBI unit to investigate UFOs.

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I would consider it, Hoover wrote, adding that, we must insist on full access to the disk recovered.

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But the important part of this is this sentence right here, could be victims of the wreck, victims take us in one direction, suggest something, could be viewing of the wreck. Totally different.

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If there's victims, that implies a flight crew and a flight crew implies an alien spacecraft because there's no flight crew in a weather balloon.

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The previous press release put out the day before, didn't mention anything about victims.

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If this document says victims of the wreck, it negates an awful lot of the skeptical arguments about the Roswell case.

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I think there's some new technology we can bring to get down to the micron level and really bring out the text to decipher the meaning of the memo.

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Anything like that would be great, because what we need to know is what it says.

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The photo archive at the University of Texas at Arlington holds 4.5 million negatives, most of which are stored at 38 degrees Fahrenheit to prevent them from deteriorating.

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So why does the rainy photo negative need to be stored in cold conditions?

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It's in that very vulnerable time period from the 1930s to the 1950s or so.

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Those acetate negatives in particular stored in regular room temperatures will deteriorate.

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Alright.

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Here it is.

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Okay.

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It has, it's identified as Brigadier General Roger Raimi left in Colonel Thomas J. DeBose looking over the wind forecasting device.

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Wind forecasting?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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There are also pictures of weather balloons that are included in this series of negatives, because that's what they were saying.

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It was.

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Fascinating.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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So the memo is just what, a quarter of an inch long?

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About that and it's folded so you can't see the whole thing.

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Yeah.

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I'd like to actually bring in some analysts with some new technology called giga macro photography using a microscope to actually look at the sub levels of the negative.

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It will be the most powerful microscope ever used to read the words in the memo.

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And if Ben Smith can bring in to focus the word victims, it could expose one of the greatest cover-ups in history.

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Ben Smith has gotten exclusive permission from the University of Texas photo archive to analyze the negative of a 70 year old image.

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It was snapped at the Army press conference where Jesse Marcel said he was forced to go along with a cover story that a weather balloon, not a flying saucer, crashed near Roswell.

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General Ramey is the one who told the newsman it was nothing more than a weather observation balloon.

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Of course we both knew differently.

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How's it going?

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Good.

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Smith has traveled here with Gene Cooper, an expert operator of the giga macro, a powerful microscope that will be used to try to read the blurry memo in General Roger Ramey's hand.

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This Ramey photo is the piece of history that you won't find anywhere else.

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I'm excited I get to see it with my own eyes.

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I don't get a touch it, but I do get to use the latest technology to peer into it at the molecular level to see if we can decipher whatever message is in that memo.

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My goal is to read the memo in General Ramey's hands.

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It's a spark of a lot of controversy, but if we can figure out what it says, we can perhaps solve the Roswell mystery.

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So what we're going to do is we're going to get down into the grains of the emotion.

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We're going to go up to 80,000 dpi with the camera system that we have here.

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It's going to take a series of focal stacks, which is bringing all those depth of field into view.

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We're going to merge all those together.

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We're going to do it over the entire area of that memo and then see what we find.

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And nobody's done it to this photo yet?

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No.

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No.

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I believe that the last scan done in 2015 was around a thousand dpi.

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And what we'll be doing today is in the neighborhood of 60 to 80,000 dpi.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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So we really might be able to read this thing.

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That's what we're hopeful of and I'm excited to get in there and see what we can find.

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Oh yeah, this can be great.

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To try and read the memo, Gene Cooper will focus in on hundreds of micro images and then begin the painstaking job of stitching them together into a mosaic.

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While Cooper works, Ben Smith travels back to Roswell to follow up on an intriguing lead.

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Is there any other information to help me in my investigation to get to that ground level truth?

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Local residents have been reluctant to give Smith the names of acquaintances that claim to know more details of the Roswell story than Jesse Marcel ever divulged publicly.

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Why the hesitancy to share with me his name?

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It's privacy.

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We're still protecting the people that who have been most affected.

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When the government says you don't talk about something, you didn't talk about it.

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Smith has located Barbara Dugard, granddaughter of Sheriff George Wilcox, the man who first alerted the military that some strange wreckage had been found in the field.

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Sheriff Wilcox is the fourth person in that inner ring of witnesses with firsthand knowledge of what was on that debris field.

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Wilcox got to see the debris himself when rancher Mac Brazel brought some to the Sheriff's office.

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Smith wants to find out what else Wilcox might have told his family.

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If you could, I'd like to hear about your connection to Sheriff George Wilcox.

233
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,000
I am Inez Wilcox and George Wilcox's granddaughter.

234
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:07,000
My grandfather, George Wilcox, was a very kind and loving man.

235
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:14,000
He tried to help the people that didn't have anything because, you know, Roswell at that time wasn't a real prosperous city.

236
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:20,000
And when did you first hear about his connection to the events of July 1947?

237
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:30,000
In 1969, I was at my grandmother's house, Inez Wilcox, and it was the same day that they had landed on the moon.

238
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,000
And that's when my grandmother told me about the Roswell incident.

239
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,000
And what did she say?

240
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,000
My grandmother got up from her seat and she closed the door.

241
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,000
She locked it. She put the blinds down.

242
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,000
And I looked at her and that was not her behavior.

243
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,000
She was very positive, very beautiful and wonderful.

244
00:17:54,000 --> 00:18:04,000
And she said, I have something that I must tell you and you must promise me that you will never, ever, ever tell this story to anyone.

245
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,000
If you do, we will all be killed.

246
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,000
And she started telling the story to my sister Phyllis and I.

247
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:21,000
According to Barbara Dugard, when her grandfather got to the crash site, it was already surrounded by the military and they weren't happy to see him.

248
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,000
My grandfather went out to see what had happened.

249
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,000
When he got there, he saw the spaceship.

250
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,000
The flying saucer had crashed outside of Roswell.

251
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,000
There were aliens.

252
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,000
And then she talked about the aliens and how they were dressed.

253
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,000
How were they dressed?

254
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,000
Well, they had on the silk suit and they had the big eyes.

255
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:52,000
She said there were little people walking around and there were some dead and some alive.

256
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:57,000
I mean, I just sat there and leaned back in my chair and thought.

257
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,000
Barbara Dugard believed even more than the spaceship debris.

258
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,000
It was the arrival of aliens on earth that the military wanted to keep secret.

259
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:16,000
Then the military came and told him to go back to the office because there would be a lot of interviewing.

260
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,000
They surrounded the courthouse.

261
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,000
They came in.

262
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000
They roughed George Wilcox up in front of Big Mom.

263
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:32,000
And she said a red-headed colonel came into the office and told Granddaddy, got him and told him.

264
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,000
And no uncertain terms.

265
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:42,000
If they told the story of the Roswell incident that their family would be killed and all their grandchildren,

266
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,000
I mean, they threatened them.

267
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:52,000
And I said to her, I said, you really believe Big Mom that the military is going to come and kill all of us?

268
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,000
And she said yes, and they will.

269
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,000
It sounds like it really affected your grandmother.

270
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,000
Yes.

271
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,000
She knew that they meant business.

272
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:07,000
My grandmother, Ines Wilcox and George Wilcox had been harassed.

273
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,000
They had been threatened.

274
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,000
And their lives had been changed.

275
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,000
My grandfather went crazy.

276
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,000
And my grandmother had to go through a lot of hell because of that.

277
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:25,000
How do you connect your grandfather's mental illness to the events of Roswell?

278
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,000
What leads you to this conclusion?

279
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000
My grandfather was perfectly normal.

280
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000
He wouldn't have been sheriff of Roswell.

281
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,000
Right.

282
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000
He was well respected from what I've read.

283
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,000
And after that, he was not normal ever again.

284
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000
Ever again.

285
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:47,000
And if somebody from the government doesn't like it, well, that's just too dang bad.

286
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
It is real.

287
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,000
The Roswell incident is real.

288
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,000
It's a powerful story.

289
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,000
Thank you, Pete.

290
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:00,000
And I will weigh it with the rest of my investigation, and hopefully we can get to truth.

291
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:07,000
People in America and the world need to know that the Roswell incident is real.

292
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000
And the government can't say it's not true.

293
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,000
It's an air balloon.

294
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,000
It's a weather balloon.

295
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,000
It isn't.

296
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,000
It was real.

297
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:26,000
So we are on our way to the second debris site.

298
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,000
What we call the impact site.

299
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,000
The impact site.

300
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,000
Yes.

301
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,000
After meeting with the granddaughter of a key eyewitness.

302
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,000
When he got there, he saw the spaceship.

303
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,000
Ben Smith wants to find physical evidence from the crash in Roswell.

304
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:47,000
So he's linking up with UFO researcher and author Don Schmidt, who claims to have interviewed

305
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,000
600 eyewitnesses connected to the event.

306
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:56,000
So who are our primary witnesses that identify this site?

307
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:05,000
Initially, it was the family of Sheriff Wilcox when they were describing his coming out north of town.

308
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:11,000
It was Schmidt who first took Ben Smith to the debris field west of Roswell.

309
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:21,000
The site where Major Jesse Marcell collected pieces of what he saw.

310
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,000
This is where it all began back in 1947.

311
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:34,000
But today they are on their way to a different location referred to as the impact site, which is north of Roswell.

312
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,000
That was the drumbeat we were hearing for years.

313
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,000
Schmidt believes that a spacecraft initially hit the ground at the debris field where pieces broke off.

314
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:51,000
But then it skipped 25 miles to this impact site where it finally came to rest.

315
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:57,000
They had the much more spectacular and much more sensitive impact site just north of town.

316
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,000
And this is where it was much more than just debris and strange wreckage.

317
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,000
There were also remains. There were also bodies.

318
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:14,000
The third member of the team is Frank Kimbler, a veteran geologist based at the New Mexico Military Institute.

319
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,000
I've been wanting to go out to this final impact site for a couple of years.

320
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,000
Kimbler has combed every inch of the debris field searching for pieces of wreckage.

321
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,000
This is his first visit to the alleged impact site.

322
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000
I liked science fiction, but I also liked science fact.

323
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,000
I was actually lived here for six months in Roswell before I even visited the UFO museum.

324
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,000
Then I went down to the museum and I said, you know what, there's no physical evidence.

325
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000
And that was the whole chest behind this.

326
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:52,000
If Kimbler can find traces that a spaceship crashed here, it would mean Jesse Marcell was right about the source of the wreckage at the debris field.

327
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
I'm excited about this site because it feels fresh.

328
00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:01,000
It's on private property. It's not known to the public. It's not marked on any tourist map.

329
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,000
It's been protected all this time.

330
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:11,000
The debris field was always conceded. That was the one thing that even the press release was based on.

331
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:20,000
Mac Brazzel, the strangeness of the debris, the unusual characteristics, the qualities of that wreckage.

332
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,000
They've got the debris field. It's scattered debris.

333
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,000
It's clearly to them something that's not terrestrially oriented.

334
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,000
They don't know where it's from, but they're looking for something else.

335
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:38,000
And it was on one of those flights that they found the rest of the wreckage.

336
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:50,000
At the very time that the rancher, Mac Brazzel, has led Major Jesse Marcell as well as Captain Sheridan Kavan back to the debris field.

337
00:24:50,000 --> 00:25:07,000
So while they are investigating that location, the debris field, the military is alerted to an additional site just 40 miles north of town, which we would learn was the impact site.

338
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:12,000
The remains of the craft and the bodies recovered.

339
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Don, you know that story about the McKnights going over to the Ball family ranch before the military came out?

340
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,000
Yes.

341
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,000
And basically said, hey, do you want to come over and see the little people?

342
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,000
Right. That was the talk back then. The little people.

343
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,000
Little people.

344
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
The little people, the little men.

345
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:38,000
According to the alleged eyewitnesses, several members of the alien crew were badly injured or dead.

346
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,000
Would this have been before they made the press release or after?

347
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,000
Before.

348
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,000
Yeah.

349
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Because given the crash happened, this was the late evening of July 2nd.

350
00:25:49,000 --> 00:26:00,000
So there's a full four to five days before the military actually is able to seal off the areas, come in and conduct it.

351
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,000
And conduct the recovery operation.

352
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,000
The story of a man named Frank Kaufman has never been verified.

353
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:19,000
He claims he was a civilian attached to a military unit assigned to recover alien bodies and the spaceship at the impact site.

354
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,000
Kaufman gave this interview in 1995.

355
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:31,000
There's a lot of erratic movement on the radar screen.

356
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:37,000
Then all of a sudden there was kind of a flash and it just disappeared.

357
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,000
Although something just went down.

358
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:48,000
After spotting an unidentified aircraft, they headed to the location where it had disappeared from radar.

359
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:55,000
We got to where it was and we learned right then and it wasn't a plane, it wasn't a missile.

360
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:03,000
It was kind of a strange looking craft and it was open in kind of a half way.

361
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Witnesses not only observing the egg shaped craft of the size of a Volkswagen Beetle, seeing a number of bodies.

362
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,000
One body was thrown up against the wall.

363
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:23,000
The other one was half in and half out of the craft.

364
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,000
And when we got in close we noticed that there were three others inside the craft.

365
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:42,000
According to Kaufman's story, the convoy loaded up the ship and the alien bodies into trucks and headed back to the same base where Jesse Marcell had brought his debris.

366
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:55,000
If there was the remains of a craft and bodies, where would that be located?

367
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:05,000
If a flying saucer with alien bodies was recovered at Roswell, Ben Smith hopes that there still could be evidence at the site where the object might have come to rest.

368
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,000
The search for the Holy Grail as we would call it continues.

369
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:17,000
The debris field is where Jesse Marcell found pieces of wreckage, but according to Don Schmidt, it is not where the object finally came to rest.

370
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:24,000
He believes it hit the debris field and skipped, like a rock to land at what he calls the final impact site.

371
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,000
It's the only wooden windmill on this ranch, 40 miles north of Roswell.

372
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:36,000
Schmidt says eyewitnesses remembered certain landmarks here, including a windmill and a water tank.

373
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Piece of the windmill.

374
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,000
Piece of the original windmill.

375
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,000
Holy cow.

376
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,000
There it is.

377
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,000
Wow.

378
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,000
I mean this thing is a historical relic now.

379
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,000
It is a relic.

380
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,000
Yeah.

381
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,000
I mean you see by the condition of the wood.

382
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,000
Yeah.

383
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,000
And that was the one crucial element in the description of the witnesses.

384
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,000
Yeah.

385
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,000
That it was a wooden windmill.

386
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,000
How tall would that wooden windmill have been, you think?

387
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,000
15 feet.

388
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,000
Okay.

389
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:10,000
So it wasn't where you would think, you know, a towering structure because as you see what the prevailing wind, it didn't take much to keep those blades going.

390
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:20,000
You see the empty bed where the metal water tank existed back in 1947.

391
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,000
So you see by its circumference.

392
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,000
Yeah.

393
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,000
It was about eight feet high.

394
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,000
Yep.

395
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,000
As it was when we were first out here.

396
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Look around, I see the Capitan Mountains, the same mountains we could see from the debris site that Mack Brazel identified.

397
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:39,000
So coming about 25 miles from that direction parallel to the Capitans almost, coming towards Roswell.

398
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Yes.

399
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,000
Okay.

400
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:51,000
So if we have the windmill right here, so let's walk back towards the Brazel debris site, 100 feet, and we'll set you up to begin your survey.

401
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,000
That'll work.

402
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,000
All right.

403
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,000
Sounds good.

404
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,000
Yeah.

405
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Let's go get a metal detector and see if we can find something out here.

406
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,000
It would be great.

407
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,000
For Kimbler, this is Virgin Ground.

408
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,000
He has never explored it before.

409
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000
It's a fresh chance to uncover evidence.

410
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:13,000
Well, I don't know.

411
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Please don't wire.

412
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
See, that's the thing about this.

413
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:24,000
I think we're too close to the windmill and we're going to end up with a lot of, we're going to end up with a lot of trash on the, in the general vicinity.

414
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:32,000
If you've got the evidence, if you have a piece of a UFO in your hand and you can prove that is of extraterrestrial origin, it's history making.

415
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,000
That is a quest like looking for the Holy Grail.

416
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,000
Oh, look at this.

417
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,000
That was right on the surface.

418
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:47,000
I wonder if that's a, that's a bullet casing and that's a, that's a high powered one too.

419
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,000
Today, Kimbler is looking for metallic debris.

420
00:30:50,000 --> 00:31:00,000
Alleged eyewitnesses say that when the military first came to this site, they tried to clean up any evidence of what crashed.

421
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,000
You find something?

422
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,000
Yeah, we need to dig this one up.

423
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,000
So it's right there, right there.

424
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,000
X marks the spot.

425
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Even than I thought it'd be.

426
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,000
Oh, here we go.

427
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,000
Did you find it?

428
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,000
It's not.

429
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,000
It's a little sharp.

430
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,000
It looks corroded.

431
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,000
It's, I don't know what that is.

432
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,000
It's heavy.

433
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,000
There's a little green, so maybe a little copper in there.

434
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Copper's been buried for a little while.

435
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,000
Let's just bag it up.

436
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,000
So mark the waypoint.

437
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000
Now we got the exact location.

438
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000
We can plot this on Google Earth.

439
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,000
We'll know exactly where we are and where the piece was found.

440
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Had this site not existed, if witnesses had not described this location with bodies and a spaceship, then we might not have the Roswell conspiracy that exists today.

441
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:04,000
I don't know what to make of it just yet, but there are supporting details that suggest something bigger happened here.

442
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Ben Smith will have this piece of metal tested to see if it could be a bullet casing from the 1940s, or possibly a kind of material mankind hadn't yet manufactured.

443
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,000
Meanwhile, progress has been made on another important test.

444
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:33,000
At the University of Texas, Gene Cooper has been taking history's closest look at the negative from the famous photo using a giga macro microscope.

445
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,000
To focus on the memo held by General Roger Raimi.

446
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Gentlemen.

447
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Hey.

448
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Hello.

449
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,000
How's it going?

450
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,000
Good.

451
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,000
How's the analysis going?

452
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,000
We've been busy here.

453
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Gene Cooper's goal is to create the most high resolution image possible.

454
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:02,000
The giga macros lens is so powerful, it can capture the grains of a negative at 80,000 dots per square inch.

455
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,000
We shot probably around 3000, 4000 images total.

456
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Wow.

457
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:15,000
It's a combination of focal stacking and then image mosaic stitching put it all together.

458
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,000
Nobody's ever tried this before.

459
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,000
We will have created the clearest resolution in the history of this iconic photo.

460
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,000
The question is, will we be able to read it?

461
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,000
And will we find the smoking gun that proves the eyewitnesses right?

462
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:37,000
So, in this case, we're looking at the very top of the acetate base of the negative.

463
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,000
And on there, you'll see different scratches and different artifacts.

464
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,000
So this one, that's right next to a key point, a letter there.

465
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,000
That little dot here.

466
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,000
That little dot there.

467
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,000
You can see it there.

468
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,000
You'd normally see it on a regular scan.

469
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,000
But when I actually focus down into the negative, it disappears.

470
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,000
Oh, perfect.

471
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,000
Not by any cloning or copying material from one location to the other or anything like

472
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,000
that digitally, purely optically.

473
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:09,000
We can start enhancing it to bring out and take a closer look at each of the individual letters and phrases.

474
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,000
The memo is one of the most controversial parts of the Roswell story.

475
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,000
A lot of ufologists believe that it contains a reference to victims.

476
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,000
So the question is, can the giga macro identify that word?

477
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:27,000
I mean, right away, I notice our word victims looks like it starts with a P.

478
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,000
Is that, do you see that too?

479
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,000
Yeah, when we first brought it up, I thought the word became pending.

480
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:39,000
This extraordinary high-resolution version produced by the giga macro shows the photo

481
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,000
in greater detail than anyone has ever seen before.

482
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,000
What about, yeah, the signature?

483
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,000
Can we see the signature line?

484
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,000
This is the signature line.

485
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:57,000
R-A-M-E-Y.

486
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,000
The Y is way separated from the word.

487
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,000
Could that be like a slight rise in the paper or something, like an optical illusion?

488
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,000
I don't know, like a...

489
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,000
It could, in fact, be an optical illusion.

490
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:16,000
Based on the way the camera was held and the lens of the camera and the lighting conceals things from us.

491
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,000
Right.

492
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:26,000
So do we have any samples of actual teletype or fonts from the age?

493
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Yeah, we did look up, there was a font case that did match and it actually looks something like this.

494
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Actually, that's really fascinating because I, for some reason in my mind,

495
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:42,000
expected the letters to be of varying widths and sizes a bit, like they are in modern fonts.

496
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,000
So go back to that rainy photo.

497
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Yeah, the uniform size of each letter really makes for more possibilities, actually.

498
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,000
We're getting closer now to clarity.

499
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:59,000
We can start to feel, but it still feels fuzzy, like we're groping for the answer that we want.

500
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,000
Is this about as far as you can go with magnification without just losing everything?

501
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,000
You are, at this point, seeing the grains of the emulsion layer, the silver halides,

502
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,000
and there's nothing more to see beyond that.

503
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,000
I was a little disappointed there wasn't perfect clarity in that image,

504
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:22,000
but using those new details, I think there's enough there to continue pushing forward

505
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,000
to identify the different letters in that memo.

506
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:30,000
They have come closer than anyone ever has to reading the words in the infamous Remy memo.

507
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:37,000
But if it does say victims in the wreck, Ben Smith will have to find another way to prove it.

508
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:48,000
Ben Smith believes Jesse Marcel knew far more than he ever admitted in public.

509
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,000
I was familiar with all materials used in aircraft. This is nothing like that.

510
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:59,000
As an intelligence officer, Marcel knew that he was duty bound to keep classified secrets for life.

511
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,000
It's curious. Jesse said the wreckage he found was extraterrestrial,

512
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,000
but if he thought it was an alien spacecraft, why didn't he mention its crew?

513
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,000
Does the journal Marcel kept close his whole life, contain the rest of the story,

514
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,000
including details of a cover-up?

515
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,000
What Smith knows so far is that Marcel didn't write it himself,

516
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,000
and it is a jumble of disconnected phrases that might be code.

517
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,000
When down in the mouth, remember Jonah, he came out all right.

518
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:36,000
If this journal is related to the events of Roswell and you're writing it to conceal your thoughts,

519
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,000
it's an interesting quote to start off your code.

520
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,000
How did it go out there?

521
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,000
It's been interesting.

522
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,000
To discuss how to push the journal investigation forward,

523
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:56,000
Ben Smith is meeting with Joe Papalardo, an aviation expert and author of Space Port Earth,

524
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,000
The Reinvention of Space Flight.

525
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000
Papalardo is well-versed in the Roswell story.

526
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,000
I went to a former Secret Service authenticator.

527
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:13,000
She cut her teeth, tracking threats from crazy people and nefarious people.

528
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,000
To link the letter to the person writing it to build a criminal case,

529
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,000
or anything like that, that had to hold up in court, so she's the real deal.

530
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:26,000
The first question we started out with was, is this an authentic document?

531
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,000
The paper itself dates to prior to 1950.

532
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:37,000
So she actually looked at the ink, which suggests that it was written before there were ballpoint pens.

533
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
So again, before 1950.

534
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,000
Another feature she identified was this watermark.

535
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:50,000
This watermark belongs to a paper mill located in Juniata, Pennsylvania,

536
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:55,000
Juniata County, which is actually next to Harrisburg, where Jesse went to intelligence school.

537
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,000
Now, I don't know yet whether that's just a coincidence,

538
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:04,000
but it's pretty exciting that at least the journal itself and the ink and the paper are all legitimate.

539
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,000
No matter what else this says, this journal could say anything or nothing.

540
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,000
But at this point, it has told you something important, which is the Marcel family is acting in good faith.

541
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,000
If you had found that the paper and the ink didn't match chronologically,

542
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,000
you'd have to doubt every other part of the story.

543
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:24,000
So this is the foundation by which the rest of the investigation into this piece of evidence is grounded.

544
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,000
Yeah.

545
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,000
Now, the sample size of Jesse's handwriting is actually pretty small,

546
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:36,000
but she felt fairly confident that the handwriting in this journal did not match Jesse Marcel's.

547
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,000
What's even more intriguing?

548
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,000
If it's not his, why did he keep it?

549
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,000
Jesse Marcel stayed silent for more than 30 years,

550
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:53,000
working as an ordinary TV repairman in his hometown of Huma, Louisiana.

551
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:59,000
We left Roswell perhaps around 3.30 or 4.30 o'clock after doing.

552
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:05,000
It is very difficult. In fact, it was just verbal directions that we never would have found it.

553
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:10,000
In 1980, he returned to Roswell and gave that bombshell TV interview,

554
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:16,000
in which he claimed before the world that he'd been forced to lie about what he'd found in the debris field.

555
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,000
I had never seen anything like that before.

556
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,000
And as of now, I don't know what it was.

557
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:28,000
After Marcel went public, several retired officers from the 509th spoke up to support his story of a cover-up

558
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:36,000
and added the extraordinary claim that the army had recovered a spaceship and the bodies of aliens.

559
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,000
Some of that testimony was recorded by a UFologist in a 1991 documentary called,

560
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,000
Recollections of Roswell.

561
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,000
I had learned, of course, that the Sergeant of the Guard,

562
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,000
we lived a series of airmen went out and they surrounded the site.

563
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:57,000
Robert Scherke was Assistant Operations Officer for the 509th Bomber Group.

564
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,000
And then they swept the area and picked up everything they could.

565
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:08,000
The bodies were brought in and everything was laid out in Hangar 84.

566
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,000
Hangar 84 has figured prominently in the stories of alleged eyewitnesses

567
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,000
who say it's where the secrets of this extraterrestrial crash were hidden.

568
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:25,000
I received a telephone call from the mortuary officer out at the Army Airfield Base.

569
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,000
Glenn Dennis was the mortician at the Ballard Funeral Home,

570
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,000
which provided services for the Roswell Army Base.

571
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:39,000
He was inquiring about what would be the smallest possible casket that we could get

572
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,000
that would be hermetically sealed.

573
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:49,000
Dennis says he assumed there'd been some kind of deadly accident involving children.

574
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,000
So he delivered three small coffins to the air base.

575
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,000
I had this friend, it's a Lieutenant Nurse that I knew quite well.

576
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,000
She said, how did you get in here? What are you doing in here?

577
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,000
And she said, you're going to get in a lot of trouble.

578
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,000
She said, would you please leave and get out of here and hurry?

579
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:12,000
The time I turned around, there was another officer said, wait a minute.

580
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:18,000
And I said, looks like you had a crash. Where was the crash?

581
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,000
And he said, you get the hell out of here and you didn't see anything

582
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,000
and you don't talk to anybody.

583
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:31,000
Like Marcel, Walter Hout also with the 509th felt intimidated to stay silent.

584
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:37,000
There's a censorship. If you're a symbol, I don't like it.

585
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,000
For many years, Walter Hout, the 509th Public Information Officer,

586
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,000
claimed he simply did as he was told and issued that famous press release.

587
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:54,000
But later, Hout told UFologists that what Marcel said was true and only a fraction of the story.

588
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,000
He had personally seen the alien bodies inside Hanger 84.

589
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:05,000
What do you think it was that was on that ranch, about 43 years ago?

590
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Some type of craft from outer space from where I do not know.

591
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:18,000
There were newspapers at the stand and he said, well, I guess now that they're putting in the paper,

592
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,000
I can tell you about this. I wanted to tell you for years.

593
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Before he died, a pilot named Oliver Papi Henderson, who was stationed at Roswell Army Air Base in July 1947,

594
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,000
made a shocking claim to his wife and daughter.

595
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,000
He said, I want you to read this article because it's the true story.

596
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:49,000
And I not only know that it's true, but I'm the pilot who slew the wreckage of the UFO to Dayton, Ohio.

597
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:57,000
According to their testimony, Henderson told them that he was the one who flew the small coffins from Roswell to Wright Paterson,

598
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,000
even glimpsing the alien bodies inside.

599
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:10,000
I remember him telling me that they were small people, certainly shorter than we were, pale, slightly slanted eyes,

600
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:18,000
sort of larger heads, and human eyes looking, human-ness looking, but not like us.

601
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:24,000
Could these stories be validated in the journal that belonged to Jesse Marcel?

602
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,000
There is no way of knowing until it is deciphered.

603
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:33,000
One question that I'm considering was, was this handed to him for safekeeping?

604
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:42,000
I'm hoping that I can get more handwriting samples of other people in the 509th group to see if this might have been passed to him

605
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,000
by somebody else within the bomber group.

606
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,000
It's written by the same person, and for me that raises another question.

607
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:56,000
Why the mark could shift? There could be stress involved, but could stress also mean there could be a distress signal?

608
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:02,000
I don't know if you remember. Vietnam vets blinking into the camera with Morse code to relay a message while they're talking.

609
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:07,000
The order of these quotes is nonsensical. It's not clear why they held meaning for the writer.

610
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,000
Maybe there's no meaning at all, but it was just a demonic device.

611
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000
A particular quote recalls a memory or a detail.

612
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,000
Think motive too. Who would give that to him?

613
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:23,000
You can understand that if you're a tight-knit group and you're in the middle of nowhere, you're working an air wing with nukes.

614
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,000
It's a pressure cooker. They know that they could trust each other with secrets.

615
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:32,000
Someone might choose him because he was the fall guy for the incident.

616
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:41,000
So if you're going to give your encoded journal over to have you two, one figure from the whole Roswell thing, you would likely trust him to do it.

617
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:58,000
To further investigate Marcel's baffling journal, former CIA investigator Ben Smith is meeting with one of the nation's top cryptologists, Craig Bauer, professor of mathematics at York University.

618
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,000
Craig!

619
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,000
Oh, hi. You must be Ben.

620
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,000
That's right. Good to meet you.

621
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,000
You too. I brought by the document that we discussed on the phone.

622
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:17,000
I can't remember how much I told you, but I have with me a journal that belonged to a man by the name of Major Jesse Marcel Sr.

623
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:27,000
He was an Army Intelligence Officer and was at the center of the Roswell incident in 1947, the alleged UFO crash out in the desert of New Mexico.

624
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:35,000
The family, after his death, finds this journal hidden with his military records, but it's not in his handwriting.

625
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:45,000
No, I flipped through this a little bit. There are a lot of quotes, a lot of musings. It's not addressed to anybody. There aren't any names that I can pick out.

626
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,000
It doesn't appear to be autobiographical?

627
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,000
No.

628
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,000
Okay.

629
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,000
From what I can sell.

630
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,000
Yeah.

631
00:46:51,000 --> 00:47:04,000
With my background in intelligence, I'm curious if this is perhaps encoded. If whoever owned this journal had sensitive information they wanted to pass on without actually revealing it.

632
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:10,000
But I need your help. I can't make sense of it. You know, I'll let you look through it.

633
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,000
Okay.

634
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:15,000
There are a lot of ways that you could hide a message in a journal.

635
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:24,000
I'm a mathematician focused on cryptology, making and breaking codes and ciphers. Ciphers are the coolest, sexiest form of writing that there can be.

636
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,000
If you're reading somebody's diary, you're flipping through page after page, and all of a sudden you see something in a cipher.

637
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:34,000
You know that's the best part of the whole diary, right? This is what you want to get at.

638
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,000
We don't use ciphers for our laundry list, for our grocery list, right?

639
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,000
We use ciphers to protect things that are extremely important or sensitive.

640
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,000
So that's the stuff we most want to read when we're trying to unravel history.

641
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,000
Yeah, text is a little odd. We have uppercase letters in the middle of a word.

642
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,000
Mm-hmm.

643
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,000
This is, you know, obviously a unique item.

644
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,000
Mm-hmm.

645
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,000
I mean, do you have it in a digital form that, you know, we could really...

646
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,000
I do, yeah.

647
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,000
Let me see the digital copy.

648
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:08,000
I love when I have a cipher to myself, when I'm the first to have eyes on something and get a stab at deciphering it.

649
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:15,000
So it's very exciting to be able to look at this journal, because I'm the first person with the skills to figure it out what might be hidden there.

650
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,000
We have 122 pages of cursive writing.

651
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:29,000
And then, on page 123, after Roswell, August 31st, 1947,

652
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:34,000
it shifts to this block letter format.

653
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,000
Now, the military's had the debris now for six weeks.

654
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,000
What have they learned in that time?

655
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:44,000
And guys like Jesse Marcel were told to be quiet about what they found.

656
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:49,000
So this shift to me looks like it could be the start of something interesting.

657
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,000
Yeah, I see a number of things we could look at here.

658
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,000
I think this might be intended to be an M, but it kind of looks like 777.

659
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Yeah.

660
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:02,000
The document expert pointed that out to me that that was a typical way he wrote M's, but it's more separated here.

661
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,000
I mean, if it is an M, we have some dashes after that.

662
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,000
Is that the number of letters?

663
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:16,000
Craig Bauer agrees that the capital M's may be the telltale sign that a code is embedded in the journal.

664
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:23,000
The writing that's intriguing in the journal, the kind of writing that seems like it could be hiding a secret message,

665
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:29,000
falls after whatever happened near Roswell happened in the summer of 1947.

666
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,000
So the timing is kind of interesting.

667
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,000
I'm sure you know 666.

668
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,000
Yeah, I'm familiar. The devil, right?

669
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,000
The number of the beast.

670
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,000
The beast, yeah.

671
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:44,000
But also in some systems of belief, 777 is a special number, the perfect being.

672
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,000
Some people equate that with Jesus.

673
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,000
Interesting.

674
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,000
So maybe it's just an M, but that's something.

675
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:57,000
It says here that 777 is the number of abundance and that when angels start sending you this message,

676
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,000
it means that the abundance you have been waiting for is just there waiting to be unlocked.

677
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,000
There is something interesting right in that first line.

678
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:15,000
We have when with a lowercase n, but then the next word down ends with an uppercase n,

679
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,000
and then in with a lowercase n.

680
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,000
Okay.

681
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,000
So what would you suddenly capitalize the last letter in a word?

682
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,000
That's kind of strange and could indicate something hidden here.

683
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,000
So wait a minute, you're telling me the 777 means the angels are providing abundance,

684
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,000
and then immediately in the next paragraph we have a total shift in something that could be coded.

685
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,000
That is almost too crazy to believe.

686
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,000
Well, let me go ahead and look at a couple more pages to see what else we have here.

687
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:54,000
Ben Smith is certain he's brought the journal that belonged to Jesse Marcel to the right place.

688
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,000
Okay, here we're one page further along.

689
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:02,000
Top code breaker Craig Bauer is starting to see patterns in the lettering,

690
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,000
a clear signal that a message may be hidden in code.

691
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,000
Here again you can see some different forms.

692
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,000
In the second line, n doesn't have a dot on the i.

693
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,000
In the next line, it looks like a foreign word.

694
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,000
Perhaps does have the dot.

695
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,000
I mean you could sometimes forget to dot an i, but if we're seeing two versions of many letters,

696
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,000
there could be more to it than just forgetfulness.

697
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,000
There could be a method to the madness.

698
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,000
It's not like we just have a small passage, it continues over several pages.

699
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:36,000
So there's a potential for, you know, a little greater depth of information being conveyed here.

700
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,000
This is jumping out at me.

701
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:46,000
Again we have a phenomena where a word ends with an uppercase letter, short with a capital T.

702
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:51,000
I mean he uses lowercase t's elsewhere, so not like the whole things in uppercase, you know,

703
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,000
somebody shouting at you in an email.

704
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,000
Right, so while the words themselves are innocuous,

705
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,000
the actual cases of the letters might indicate some kind of code.

706
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,000
Yeah, so there's several ways to do that with a cipher.

707
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,000
It just doesn't seem natural.

708
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,000
That's one of the giveaways.

709
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,000
You're trying to hide something.

710
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,000
Is the handwriting doesn't look natural, or the characters don't look right?

711
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:19,000
It's just, you know, anything that looks like a little hinky and off from normal writing

712
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,000
can indicate that the author was trying to do something else at the same time.

713
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,000
And so it's a sign that this should bear closer examination.

714
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Yeah.

715
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:33,000
After spending less than an hour looking at the journal, Bauer sees telltale signs

716
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,000
that a code might be embedded in the text.

717
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,000
To his trained eye, having two forms of a single letter,

718
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,000
suggest what is called a biliteral code,

719
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,000
where the alternate form represents a different letter altogether

720
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,000
in what is known as the B alphabet.

721
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,000
We already identified two versions of I, two versions of T, two versions of N.

722
00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:00,000
So we want to keep rolling with that and build a little catalog of what's going on in these few pages.

723
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,000
Once you've separated the letters, then what?

724
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,000
Well, we just investigate different schemes.

725
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:10,000
We had G like this and G like this.

726
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:11,000
Right.

727
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,000
So in some cases it was a lower case versus an upper case,

728
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,000
but which of these is A and which of these is not?

729
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,000
But which of these is A and which of these is B?

730
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,000
It's unclear.

731
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,000
Right.

732
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,000
So we'd have a lot of possibilities to check.

733
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,000
Any given letter, we'd have two possibilities.

734
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,000
If this form is A or that this form is B.

735
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,000
Mm-hmm.

736
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:37,000
So two choices for each letter, well, 26 letters,

737
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:38,000
Oh, wow.

738
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,000
we'd have that many possibilities to consider.

739
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,000
That grows pretty fast.

740
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:47,000
That's 67,108,864.

741
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:52,000
Over 67 million possibilities in that journal.

742
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,000
Wow.

743
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:58,000
Well, fortunately, we're not looking at the journal in 1947.

744
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,000
Okay, with the computing power we have now, we can test all of those

745
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,000
and figure out which one looks the most like English.

746
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:06,000
Yeah.

747
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,000
Do you have a program already that can do that?

748
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,000
No, this is a custom job.

749
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,000
Oh, really?

750
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,000
But exciting.

751
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:16,000
I expected it to be hard, but I didn't think it would take custom code to do it.

752
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,000
But that's impressive.

753
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,000
That means I came to the right guys.

754
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,000
Yeah, it should be fun.

755
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,000
Yeah.

756
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,000
We'll be in touch.

757
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,000
Cool.

758
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,000
Thanks, guys.

759
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,000
Have a good trip back.

760
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,000
If Craig Bauer can decipher it, the journal could be the missing link,

761
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:38,000
the key to unlocking what happened at Roswell.

762
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,000
From the moment he broke his silence,

763
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,000
millions of Americans have believed that Jesse Marcel was telling the truth.

764
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:53,000
His story struck a chord in the 1970s when unrest over the Vietnam War,

765
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:59,000
coupled with scandals like Watergate, made many distrustful of big government.

766
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:05,000
After Marcel, other members of the 509th elaborated on what happened at Roswell.

767
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,000
What do you think it was?

768
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:14,000
Some type of craft from outer space, from where I do not know.

769
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:24,000
By 1990, a Gallup poll reported that nearly 70 million Americans believed alien spaceships had visited the Earth.

770
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:30,000
Yet the government stayed silent about Roswell, which it officially considered a non-event.

771
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:35,000
Decades after the crash and the press conference that claimed it was a weather balloon,

772
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:40,000
people still asked questions.

773
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:48,000
The issue is providing to the public whatever records may still exist, if any, and there may not be any,

774
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:53,000
but if any on the Roswell incident so people can make their own determination.

775
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:58,000
That is the mission that I discussed with the General Accounting Office.

776
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:06,000
Then in 1993, Congressman Stephen Schiff of New Mexico began pressing hard for answers.

777
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:12,000
Following his request, the U.S. Air Force undertook a fresh investigation of Roswell.

778
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:24,000
It examined the records of half a dozen agencies and even interviewed those still alive who claimed they'd been witnesses.

779
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:30,000
The result was a nearly 1,000-page report made public in 1995.

780
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:35,000
Colonel Richard Weaver supervised the investigation and was one of the report's authors.

781
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,000
We just didn't go to a big master file that said,

782
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,000
Roswell, and open up a file folder.

783
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:51,000
We started to methodically look at all the things that were taking place in the Air Force in 1947 at Roswell Air Force Base in New Mexico.

784
00:56:51,000 --> 00:57:00,000
And so we searched a multitude of records in a multitude of locations because, of course, the base has been closed for a long time.

785
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:05,000
The report does not dispute that something crashed in the ranch lands west of Roswell,

786
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:13,000
but in a stunning twist, it reveals that it was not a weather balloon.

787
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,000
If you will read this book, and I'm sure you're going to take it home tonight and read it,

788
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:26,000
quite frankly, you're going to find some very interesting and quite fascinating pieces of information about Air Force research.

789
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:31,000
The Air Force claimed that what crashed was almost certainly a type of balloon called a mogul.

790
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:38,000
I don't know what they saw in 47, but I'm quite sure it probably was Project Mogul.

791
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:44,000
In 1947, the United States launched 32 mogul balloons over the course of seven months.

792
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:50,000
They were part of a top-secret project in the growing Cold War with the Soviet Union.

793
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,000
Each mogul balloon was essentially a listening device,

794
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:05,000
equipped to detect the sound waves that would be produced by a Soviet atomic bomb test.

795
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:13,000
The U.S. was the only nuclear power in the world, and keeping track of the Soviets was the highest priority.

796
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:19,000
The mogul balloons were launched from the Alamogordo Air Base just 70 miles from Roswell.

797
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:28,000
In 1947, it was the misidentification of these radar reflectors that is most likely the famous flying disc.

798
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,000
Whether you accept that as the Roswell information, I quite frankly don't know,

799
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:38,000
but we do because it overlays so well with this period of time.

800
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:44,000
For many, the explanation seemed plausible, but for others, it was deeply unsatisfying.

801
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:50,000
But the Air Force investigation has been criticized for not having full access to U.S. Army records,

802
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:54,000
which in 1947 still oversaw the nation's growing air forces.

803
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,000
For Don Schmidt and others, it didn't wash.

804
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:02,000
They were quickly trying to put together their third explanation.

805
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:07,000
Ladies and gentlemen, we lied about Roswell in 1947.

806
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:15,000
We lied about the balloon explanation, but here is our new theory, and they present the project mogul.

807
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:21,000
So what do you think people in Roswell now still are not convinced no matter what you say?

808
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,000
I'm sorry, but I just can't answer that question for them.

809
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:32,000
To this day, the family of Jesse Marcell is definitely not convinced it was a mogul balloon.

810
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:40,000
In 1995, the government came out with a story to explain what the crash at Roswell was.

811
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:47,000
Looking at that information based upon what my grandfather and my father told me, they just don't match up.

812
00:59:48,000 --> 01:00:06,000
So far, there has never been a researcher with your experience and credibility on the site to examine the potential of a crash.

813
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:13,000
The argument over what crashed at Roswell has always been missing physical evidence.

814
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:20,000
Ben Smith is returning to the debris field where in 1947 Jesse Marcell, a 40-year-old Army intelligence officer,

815
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:26,000
was certain he'd picked up pieces of wreckage that were extra-terrestrial.

816
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:33,000
On this visit, Smith has brought with him one of America's leading experts on aviation crashes.

817
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:39,000
So a lot of my investigative work on accidents is post-accident.

818
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:47,000
David Sussi is a former FAA accident inspector and the author of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370,

819
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:54,000
the commercial airliner that mysteriously disappeared without a trace.

820
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:59,000
Smith hopes that Sussi's expert eye will find something that others have missed.

821
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:06,000
My hope originally with the tech survey was that we could bring out all this equipment that didn't exist and all this software

822
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:11,000
and find evidence of debris or an impact zone or a large-scale cover-up.

823
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,000
And so far, we haven't been able to find anything.

824
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:24,000
What I'd love from you is your perspective on entry angles and the speeds and something that could explain the witness accounts of the debris field.

825
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,000
Okay.

826
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:32,000
Even 70 years after the Roswell crash, David Sussi knows that some things won't have changed much at the debris field,

827
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,000
like the topography or landscape features.

828
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:42,000
What is intriguing to me about this is the witness credibility aspect of that.

829
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:48,000
Even when I go on an accident site just days after the accident, there's credibility issues there.

830
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:56,000
They train us as inspectors to vet those witness accounts because they really believe that they saw something happen,

831
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,000
that we know for a fact didn't happen.

832
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:06,000
As far as the physical evidence piece, I'm hoping to find something that I could say, here's what is here,

833
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:10,000
but at the very least, we might be able to determine what is not there.

834
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:20,000
It doesn't look like much, but it's the birthplace of ufology in the United States.

835
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,000
Yeah.

836
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,000
Just by measuring the patterns and velocity of the wind,

837
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:32,000
Sussi is confident he can gather enough data to test the government's claim that what crashed here was a mogul balloon.

838
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:43,000
Mogul was an attempt to acoustically detect Soviet nuclear blast and ballistic missile launches.

839
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:50,000
A mogul balloon was actually a series of weather balloons linked together in a 650 foot high chain,

840
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,000
100 feet taller than the Washington Monument.

841
01:02:55,000 --> 01:03:00,000
Each balloon chain carried a crude acoustic sensor called a sonobooey.

842
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:09,000
In 1947, it was the misidentification of these radar reflectors that is most likely the famous flying disc.

843
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:19,000
The 1995 Air Force Report theorized that mogul balloon number four, which had been launched on June 4th, 1947,

844
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,000
was the one that crashed near Roswell.

845
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:28,000
These flights were all meticulously logged when they were launched and what the weather was and all these things.

846
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:36,000
They tried to recover the material if they could, but the material in and of itself wasn't important.

847
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,000
The purpose was important.

848
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:47,000
It was slightly more than three weeks between the time mogul balloon four was reported lost and the Roswell wreckage was found.

849
01:03:50,000 --> 01:04:00,000
So let me show you exactly what the witnesses described as a furrow or a gouge, beginning here, heading in that direction,

850
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:05,000
cut across the landscape for 200 to 300 feet in this direction.

851
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,000
And how wide?

852
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,000
Ten feet.

853
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,000
Ten feet wide. Interesting.

854
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:16,000
And from this location, we also start the fan of the debris field.

855
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:22,000
Jesse Marcel, senior, claimed that the debris looks scattered as if something exploded from the sky.

856
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,000
There was so much of it. It was scattered in such a vast area.

857
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:33,000
Ufologist and author Kevin Randall is an expert on the Roswell crash.

858
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:39,000
Randall is certain that Jesse Marcel would have recognized the wreckage of a balloon.

859
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:45,000
Jesse Marcel examined that debris. Had it been a weather balloon and a Ray Wind target, he would have recognized it.

860
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,000
And that would be the end of the story and you and I would not be here today.

861
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:54,000
Weather balloons have been used to take soundings of the atmosphere that are launched around the world twice a day.

862
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:59,000
And that's been the case from before 1947, right up to now.

863
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:04,000
Eventually they do pop and come down to earth and are retrieved.

864
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:12,000
But Richard Weaver says that only officers directly involved in Project Mogul would have known about it.

865
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:18,000
They classified Mogul top secret, which means only a few people have the need to know.

866
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:25,000
The project's lead engineer was Professor Charles Moore of New York University.

867
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:31,000
He agreed with the government that the eyewitnesses descriptions of debris matched one of his Mogul balloons.

868
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:39,000
The rancher who picked up the debris noted that it contained brass eyelets at the corners of these radar targets.

869
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,000
They were also on the targets we flew.

870
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:46,000
Moore said that the instant news broke that the army had recovered a flying disk.

871
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,000
He knew it was his lost Mogul balloon, number four.

872
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:57,000
When Moore and his Mogul team learned of the flap over the Roswell incident, he said they laughed, but they kept quiet about their project.

873
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,000
So they're saying it went this direction, which is almost east, right?

874
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:04,000
Right.

875
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,000
What I like to do is get a documentation of the site.

876
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:19,000
I'll take the angle of every photo and then we'll be able to map that against what I expect the airflow would have been.

877
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:26,000
Then what I like to do with every accident site is get some pictures of what would be the approach path to the impact point.

878
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:32,000
So from every location, we take pictures coming in and going out.

879
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:41,000
I'm not sure I'd buy that whole balloon drag theory.

880
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:42,000
Really?

881
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:43,000
I've gone through there.

882
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:53,000
It's only his first visit to the debris field, but already this seasoned former FAA crash inspector has doubts that a Mogul balloon could have crashed here.

883
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:59,000
Something's wrong with it, with that whole theory of the fact that a drug and it's straight and there's debris straight off to the east.

884
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,000
I'm not really buying that.

885
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:11,000
To think of a balloon going this way, if it were a Mogul balloon that was settling as the balloon approaches the ground, it picks up the ground flow.

886
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:20,000
So it'd be highly irregular to see a balloon accident go across this valley and continue in that direction the way it was described.

887
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:24,000
You've got wind readings up there, wind readings on the west side and then wind readings in the bottom.

888
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,000
And you can see that it changed direction throughout that.

889
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:36,000
So we can rule out a Mogul balloon making contact with the earth at the furrow, dragging across the ground, laying to rest across that debris field.

890
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,000
It's not the way it works.

891
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:45,000
I don't know if you've removed a piece of the puzzle or added a new one. I'm not sure at this point.

892
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,000
Just the facts, man.

893
01:07:54,000 --> 01:08:00,000
David Sussi will put his readings into a computer program designed to analyze crash sites.

894
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:10,000
If he determines a Mogul balloon could not have gone down here, the investigation will be one step closer to discovering whether Jesse Marcell was telling the truth.

895
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:29,000
Because so much of his investigation hinges on Jesse Marcell's testimony, Ben Smith has come to New York City to see Tanya Reiman, an expert in body language and what are called micro expressions.

896
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:38,000
This is a photo of the primary subject of my investigation, an intelligence officer by the name of Jesse Marcell.

897
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:42,000
Here he is in a press release on July 8th, 1947.

898
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:51,000
He was ordered to pose with this tinfoil here and say what earlier had been reported as a flying saucer was a weather balloon.

899
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:57,000
It's not till 1980 that he comes out publicly and starts speaking to the cameras about what he really saw.

900
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:00,000
He was of the impression that these materials were not from this planet.

901
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:13,000
Right, so that led to the idea that there was a government cover-up to hide a UFO crash and bodies and many other extraordinary claims, but it all comes back to the integrity and the testimony of this man here.

902
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:25,000
Smith has brought with him footage of some of Jesse Marcell's interviews. Reiman will watch them closely, looking for any sign that Jesse Marcell may not be telling the truth.

903
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:32,000
He told me not to say anything. I'll have it from now on. And that's exactly what he did.

904
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:41,000
When he came out he said he told the press that was there. He said there was nothing but a weather balloon, a crash balloon.

905
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:51,000
It was definitely a lot of weather balloons. And it was an aircraft. So what it could have been, I wouldn't know. I still don't know.

906
01:09:52,000 --> 01:10:00,000
Is there anything we can take away from these clips here about whether he's being deceptive or not?

907
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:08,000
We're looking for a few different things. Is he moving around too much? Is he fidgeting? He held eye contact. He smiled at appropriate times.

908
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:17,000
And he actually shook his head up and down when he was saying something in the affirmative and he shook his head side to side when he was saying, like, you know, I couldn't say anything.

909
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:21,000
So those are signals of truth. Those are signals of congruency.

910
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:25,000
So that tells you he believed in what he was saying?

911
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:31,000
Right. He believed what he was saying, but at the same time he's not really saying anything specific.

912
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:35,000
At the end he says, I don't even know what I saw, which makes it easy for him to be congruent.

913
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:44,000
Of course. So Jesse has become a bit of a lightning rod for the whole controversy around the Roswell incident.

914
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:49,000
His family says he was an honest man, a man of duty, and he's telling the truth.

915
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:50,000
Right.

916
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:56,000
The government says they don't know why he's making these claims. He's not telling the truth.

917
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:06,000
In its 1995 report, the Air Force cited a sworn affidavit from Sheridan Kavett.

918
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:13,000
Kavett was the special agent for counterintelligence who accompanied Marcel to investigate the debris.

919
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:20,000
As a CIC agent, he was in a different chain of command, but they were friends because nobody likes you if you're a counterintelligence officer.

920
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,000
Nobody likes you if you're an intelligence officer.

921
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:34,000
As the other official on site, Kavett could have backed Marcel's story about strange wreckage that littered a field with nearly a mile of debris, but he didn't.

922
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:42,000
Kavett, who was there with him, said that there's not much material there at all, which they recovered most of.

923
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:50,000
He said it was obvious to him at the time that the stuff they were picking up was just crap, just for lack of a better term.

924
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:57,000
The fact was the material as depicted in the photos was identified by Kavett still alive in 1994.

925
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:05,000
As the material, he and Marcel physically picked up in the desert on the farm in July of 1947.

926
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,000
In his affidavit, Sheridan Kavett wrote,

927
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:15,000
The amount of debris was very small, about 20 square feet.

928
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:23,000
I remember recognizing the material as consistent with a weather balloon, which would easily fit into one vehicle.

929
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:30,000
One thing I was certain of, it was not a weather balloon, nor an aircraft, nor a missile.

930
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,000
It was something else, which we didn't know what it was.

931
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:40,000
There were just fragments strewn all over the area, about three quarters of a mile long, and several hundred feet wide.

932
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,000
So we proceeded to pick up the parts.

933
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:47,000
So which intelligence officer was telling the truth?

934
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:50,000
Sheridan Kavett or Jesse Marcel?

935
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:57,000
We're looking for things like fidgeting or diverting attention.

936
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:03,000
I didn't see that with this, and once again, when he did make a fumble, a verbal fumble, he would auto-correct.

937
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,000
He did it consistently and comfortably.

938
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:06,000
Uh-huh.

939
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:11,000
In this next clip, he's going to describe the materials that he discovered.

940
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,000
And this is a key part of the investigation.

941
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:18,000
Can we trust his eyewitness account about the actual debris that he found?

942
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:19,000
Okay.

943
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:27,000
But the thing about that, you know, got me is that you couldn't even bend it, you couldn't bend it.

944
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,000
Even with a sledgehammer, it would bounce off of it.

945
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,000
So I knew that I had never seen anything like that before.

946
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,000
And as of now, I don't know what it was.

947
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,000
It was not anything from this earth that I'm quite sure of.

948
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:47,000
Because I was bigger than intelligence officer, I was familiar with just about all the materials used in aircraft

949
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,000
and in our air travel.

950
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,000
This was nothing like that.

951
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,000
It could not have been.

952
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,000
Do you see any signs of deception?

953
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:01,000
I don't see any signs of deception in him, in his own self-belief.

954
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:07,000
So he's not being willingly deceptive to trick us all into believing something that isn't true.

955
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,000
He truly believes what he's saying.

956
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,000
I got the impression that he truly believes what he's saying.

957
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:24,000
After analyzing Marcel's body language with expert Tonya Reiman, who sees no indication of deceit,

958
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,000
he truly believes what he's saying.

959
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:35,000
Ben Smith heads to York College in Pennsylvania to see if cryptologist Craig Bauer has made progress deciphering the journal.

960
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:42,000
With Smith is Jesse Marcel's grandson, who is just as eager to know what the writing in the journal means.

961
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:50,000
Do you think that there would have been any reason why another intelligence officer on base would have wanted to give him information

962
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:54,000
that would have been somewhat coded in some way?

963
01:14:54,000 --> 01:15:00,000
I think if your grandfather is making claims that someone else believes,

964
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:09,000
or someone else had the same experience, but for whatever reason they feel afraid of openly speaking out.

965
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:14,000
They might capture that in a code and give it to your grandfather.

966
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:19,000
I would like to believe that what we find in there is going to be something significant enough

967
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:28,000
that it makes it irrefutable that what my father and grandfather believed in was something that was truly not made by human hands.

968
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:35,000
Craig Bauer has devised a customized program to try and crack whatever code might be hiding in the journal.

969
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:39,000
Back knock.

970
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,000
Hey Ben, good to see you again.

971
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:42,000
Yeah, you too. How are you?

972
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:43,000
Good. You must be Jesse.

973
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:44,000
Jesse Marcel. It's nice to meet you.

974
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,000
Craig, nice to meet you.

975
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,000
Jack is one of our best math and computer science majors.

976
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:49,000
Oh great.

977
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:50,000
Let's see again.

978
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,000
So we've been studying your grandfather's journal.

979
01:15:53,000 --> 01:16:00,000
The first really interesting thing we noticed was sort of weird way of looking at the journal.

980
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:07,000
The second thing we noticed was sort of weird ways of writing letters.

981
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:11,000
Like he has a capital L in the middle of a word.

982
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:16,000
And it's not like the whole thing is an uppercase, it's just randomly a capital L.

983
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,000
You can see on the line above he's using lowercase L's and little girl.

984
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,000
We started to see these different forms.

985
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:26,000
So I asked Jack to prepare this table and I was thrilled with this result.

986
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:31,000
We have two forms of every letter that appears more than once.

987
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:41,000
You can see a K where it's two separate pieces and together up at the top right you can see an O and an O that's filled in like a solid circle.

988
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:44,000
A P with a loop, a P without a loop.

989
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,000
So this really intrigued us.

990
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:49,000
To a cryptographer this indicates a certain kind of cipher.

991
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,000
It does.

992
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:51,000
Yes.

993
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:56,000
If you have two different versions of a letter, we could call them say zero and one.

994
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:57,000
Sure.

995
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,000
So you have an apparent message but really it's spelling something out in binary.

996
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:02,000
Binary?

997
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,000
Is that okay?

998
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,000
Just that simple.

999
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:05,000
Yeah.

1000
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,000
There's a system that uses that kind of approach.

1001
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:08,000
Okay.

1002
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,000
This made us very hopeful.

1003
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,000
You got my heart going.

1004
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,000
I'll say that much.

1005
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:17,000
But there is some bad news.

1006
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:25,000
If somebody's implementing a bilateral cipher, that person has to be very careful to stick to one or the other form and make it clear which it is.

1007
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:26,000
That makes sense.

1008
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,000
Go ahead and show them.

1009
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,000
Oh, okay.

1010
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,000
This is the real result.

1011
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:37,000
We found in many instances three forms of a letter and this is a big problem.

1012
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:39,000
This would throw everything off?

1013
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:40,000
Yeah.

1014
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:46,000
So this was kind of frustrating and the result was that we had to run our program again and again and again.

1015
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:47,000
Okay.

1016
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:52,000
With different assumptions, with different assignments for some of these third characters, these third forms.

1017
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:57,000
Our government has poured so much money into the development of computers because they needed them for code breaking.

1018
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,000
This is why computers were developed.

1019
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,000
You could go through a lot of combinations by hand.

1020
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,000
67 million, no.

1021
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:04,000
Okay.

1022
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:12,000
But we have computers because of this need to break ciphers and this is how we're going to apply them in this journal.

1023
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,000
We had to write a computer program that just tests all the possibilities.

1024
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:19,000
We tested our program on little pieces, little sections of the journal.

1025
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,000
Why don't we show them a typical result?

1026
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:25,000
Maybe just the very first passage that was printed about Jonah.

1027
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,000
Here's the original quote.

1028
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:33,000
When down in the mouth, remember Jonah, he came out all right.

1029
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:34,000
Okay, sure.

1030
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,000
The program just takes a few minutes.

1031
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:40,000
We get things like this.

1032
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:41,000
A web.

1033
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:42,000
Okay.

1034
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:47,000
And the asterisk means we got a string of A's and B's that does not correspond to a letter.

1035
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,000
That's a bad sign to get one that doesn't even map to a letter.

1036
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:51,000
Okay.

1037
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,000
Every so often you could pick out a word here or there.

1038
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:57,000
I think you got a MacArthur at one point.

1039
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,000
So we were kind of checking the timing.

1040
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,000
What have you been writing about MacArthur?

1041
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:07,000
But on run after run, we're just periodically getting words, but never a complete sentence.

1042
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,000
Never anything that looks like it could have arisen by chance.

1043
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:11,000
Okay, sure.

1044
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:12,000
Nothing meaningful.

1045
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:13,000
Right, right.

1046
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,000
I mean, I guess there's there's a ray of hope.

1047
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:20,000
We can't conclude that there's not something hidden there.

1048
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,000
Okay.

1049
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:25,000
We can conclude that there's not something hidden there with a straightforward bilateral cypher.

1050
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:26,000
Okay.

1051
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,000
But there are many ways to hide a message.

1052
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:36,000
We still don't have a good explanation for why you would have an uppercase L in the middle of a word or, you know, these strange different forms.

1053
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:37,000
Yeah.

1054
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,000
So there could well be something there.

1055
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:46,000
You know, the 509th bomb group where Jesse worked was a pretty unique place.

1056
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:50,000
They had a lot of need to communicate sensitive information to each other.

1057
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:59,000
Is it possible that a group like the 509 could communicate in a cypher that only they knew about?

1058
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,000
Oh yeah, I think they could do that pretty easily.

1059
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:04,000
There are a lot of homebrew systems.

1060
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:09,000
You know, to make up a little cypher system, you're just going to exchange a few messages.

1061
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,000
It's not that hard to make it really hard to break.

1062
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:13,000
Uh-huh.

1063
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,000
I have a lot of faith that there's something here.

1064
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:21,000
My grandfather would have wanted to leave some kind of message behind.

1065
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:22,000
Something.

1066
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:25,000
I always said that you can always believe the other people that were involved.

1067
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:31,000
So maybe this is one of the other people that was involved in some way of getting a message.

1068
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,000
We need to go find out who wrote this.

1069
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:34,000
Yeah.

1070
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,000
Next on Roswell, the first witness.

1071
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:45,000
He told me don't believe everything the government tells you.

1072
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:49,000
What did Jesse Marcel say in private that he never said in public?

1073
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:53,000
He said there are things that this world is not ready for.

1074
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:56,000
He confessed to her there was more.

1075
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,000
So much more he could have said.

1076
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,000
I found out it was there.

1077
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,000
And I was going to do a housework.

1078
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:06,000
He said he was not believing everything that you know that you know that's happening.

1079
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,000
I'm sure he was actually.

1080
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:12,000
Did Marcel hide a piece of what he found at home?

1081
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:14,000
Jesse said he had proof.

1082
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,000
That could, based on the braid left around.

1083
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:20,000
Is the proof still buried in the ground?

1084
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:21,000
Right there.

1085
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:25,000
It's something that it doesn't make sense to me.

1086
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,000
Have you ever seen that in a wreck?

1087
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:28,000
No.

1088
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,000
There's something under the ground there.

1089
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,000
She says her father staged a cover.

1090
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:34,000
And he also destroyed files.

1091
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,000
Or changed them.

1092
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:39,000
Even though he knew Jesse Marcel was right.

1093
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:44,000
He said that the world wasn't ready to know the truth about what happened at Roswell.

1094
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:50,000
He didn't write the journal, but did he share its secrets with this man who could have?

1095
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,000
I'm Lawrence Fishburne.

1096
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:55,000
Thanks for watching History's Greatest Mysteries.

1097
01:21:55,000 --> 01:22:00,000
Next time, our conclusion to Roswell, the first witness.